*warning* controversial content inside

[Faust]

Yeah believe it or not I agree with you. About the only angle I see where you and I fundamentally disagree (and that's just a guess), is that I feel we are the way we are, and realize that the "games" that are played between the sexes have been in place in general, since humans existed in their primary form. And this "game" is far from just dealing with the topic of stripping. It exists in marriage, dating, flirting, and even casual sex. Any and all forms of communication between men and women involve the game that i'm refering to. Women expect certain things, guys expect certain things, and both of us expect certain things as to how these things are delivered/dealt with. I fully respect women, and I seriously don't view patronizing to my pure male side (as rare as that side comes up), as a lack of respect to women. I fully agree that people have the freedom to choose what they want to do, and if someone with particular talents (be it male or female) decides to profit from these talents (god given or developed, not just refering to stripping), and there is a market for it, then let them be the pilot of their own vehicle in life and benefit from it.


I fully feel prostitution should be fully legalized, and totally inspected as a licensed profession, and overseen by the government health wise, just like it is in Germany. When I went to Germany I was floored. Not in a bad way, but in a "Wow, I can't believe the might USA hasn't figured this out yet" with regards to prostitution (both male and female, though obviously the male market is rather small compared to the female). I guess i'm lacking in the capacity to fully comprehend how watching a performer like say a stripper, or using the services of a professional prostitute constitutes as me "objectifying that person". I look at them as a PERSON, that has certain talents, and if I want to patronize them for their talents, and they are being compensated for this and this is of their choosing, why not? I guess i'm a fairly big centrist libertarian. I also feel marijuana should be legalized. Though I fully understand why drugs such as heroin or crack should not be legalized. I dunno. I'm a good man, and I'm a deep thinker that is constantly thinking about all kinds of things, and after almost 35 years of being alive, these are the beliefs I feel make most sense, atleast to me. Would I personally want to see, say my daughter become a prostitute? I would say no based on the fact that I would hope my daughter had deeper abilities than relying on her body and looks, but let's face it, not everyones kid is a rocket scientist, and some are flat our stupid. If my daughter happened to be like that, I wouldn't freak out if she became a prostitute, that would be what she chooses. As long as she was safe, healthy, and was choosing such a path on her own free will.


I suppose i'm just a fierce proponent for freedoms, regardless if I like them or not. I personally think our current president is a head of cabbage with legs, but I would defend him with my life because he is my commander in chief. To me if it's legal, and between consenting adults, knock yourself out. In the big scheme of our existance on planet earth, there is much more important things to me to put effort into.

 

[Faust]

Yeah believe it or not I agree with you. About the only angle I see where you and I fundamentally disagree (and that's just a guess), is that I feel we are the way we are, and realize that the "games" that are played between the sexes have been in place in general, since humans existed in their primary form. And this "game" is far from just dealing with the topic of stripping. It exists in marriage, dating, flirting, and even casual sex. Any and all forms of communication between men and women involve the game that i'm refering to. Women expect certain things, guys expect certain things, and both of us expect certain things as to how these things are delivered/dealt with. I fully respect women, and I seriously don't view patronizing to my pure male side (as rare as that side comes up), as a lack of respect to women. I fully agree that people have the freedom to choose what they want to do, and if someone with particular talents (be it male or female) decides to profit from these talents (god given or developed, not just refering to stripping), and there is a market for it, then let them be the pilot of their own vehicle in life and benefit from it.


I fully feel prostitution should be fully legalized, and totally inspected as a licensed profession, and overseen by the government health wise, just like it is in Germany. When I went to Germany I was floored. Not in a bad way, but in a "Wow, I can't believe the might USA hasn't figured this out yet" with regards to prostitution (both male and female, though obviously the male market is rather small compared to the female). I guess i'm lacking in the capacity to fully comprehend how watching a performer like say a stripper, or using the services of a professional prostitute constitutes as me "objectifying that person". I look at them as a PERSON, that has certain talents, and if I want to patronize them for their talents, and they are being compensated for this and this is of their choosing, why not? I guess i'm a fairly big centrist libertarian. I also feel marijuana should be legalized. Though I fully understand why drugs such as heroin or crack should not be legalized. I dunno. I'm a good man, and I'm a deep thinker that is constantly thinking about all kinds of things, and after almost 35 years of being alive, these are the beliefs I feel make most sense, atleast to me. Would I personally want to see, say my daughter become a prostitute? I would say no based on the fact that I would hope my daughter had deeper abilities than relying on her body and looks, but let's face it, not everyones kid is a rocket scientist, and some are flat our stupid. If my daughter happened to be like that, I wouldn't freak out if she became a prostitute, that would be what she chooses. As long as she was safe, healthy, and was choosing such a path on her own free will.


I suppose i'm just a fierce proponent for freedoms, regardless if I like them or not. I personally think our current president is a head of cabbage with legs, but I would defend him with my life because he is my commander in chief. To me if it's legal, and between consenting adults, knock yourself out. In the big scheme of our existance on planet earth, there is much more important things to me to put effort into.

 

[CowTown]

<blockquote>Quote<br><hr><i>Originally posted by: <b>SeanDavis</b></i><br>Yeah believe it or not I agree with you. About the only angle I see where you and I fundamentally disagree (and that's just a guess), is that I feel we are the way we are, and realize that the "games" that are played between the sexes have been in place in general, since humans existed in their primary form. And this "game" is far from just dealing with the topic of stripping. It exists in marriage, dating, flirting, and even casual sex......

I fully feel prostitution should be fully legalized, and totally inspected as a licensed profession, and overseen by the government health wise, just like it is in Germany.....

I guess i'm lacking in the capacity to fully comprehend how watching a performer like say a stripper, or using the services of a professional prostitute constitutes as me "objectifying that person". I look at them as a PERSON, that has certain talents, and if I want to patronize them for their talents, and they are being compensated for this and this is of their choosing, why not? I guess i'm a fairly big centrist libertarian.......

Would I personally want to see, say my daughter become a prostitute? I would say no based on the fact that I would hope my daughter had deeper abilities than relying on her body and looks, but let's face it, not everyones kid is a rocket scientist, and some are flat our stupid. If my daughter happened to be like that, I wouldn't freak out if she became a prostitute, that would be what she chooses. As long as she was safe, healthy, and was choosing such a path on her own free will.

I suppose i'm just a fierce proponent for freedoms, regardless if I like them or not. I personally think our current president is a head of cabbage with legs, but I would defend him with my life because he is my commander in chief. To me if it's legal, and between consenting adults, knock yourself out. In the big scheme of our existance on planet earth, there is much more important things to me to put effort into.<hr></blockquote>




I wasn't expecting you to say that you agree with me. Nice. <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif" border="0"> I feel that the games you are referring to have been learned over time. As our brains have evolved over time, become more advanced in thinking and problem solving, we have learned the skills to manipulate, to condescend and to be competitive, etc. I agree I see it "exists in marriage, dating, flirting, and even casual sex", but that goes back to the individual. Each person can learn the skill to "not play" if they didn't agree in playing games. Mind games, manipulation and all those ugly head trips I think are retarded and uneccessary but some people don't know how to not play. That goes to education and learning new skills to help move people forward in their actions, not just sit in a pile of self-perpetuating mind games. That's all some people know, sadly enough, because I believe that's what they've learned. You can learn new, more self respecting, empowering and helpful ways to do things. When it comes to relationships of the sexes, I just wish more people first had their own self respect in tack, then secured the respect needed for another person and then taught that to their seedlings. That's where it starts so that the games can end. I think on a whole people just want to be loved and feel important. The second any of that starts to break down usually during childhood, things go haywire from then on.

I think for you to say that you don't fully comprehend how watching a stripper or going to a prostitute constitutes you as "objectifying that person", means that you aren't aware of the psychology behind the strippers or prostitutes doing those activities in the first place....especially prostitutes. I have seen enough interviews/shows on the personal lives of those people and hardly ever are those woman dreaming to do this as a career from when they were little kids. Somewhere along the line those women's self image became shattered, and their bodies became the easiest tool to use to find new comfort (on a surface level), the feeling that someone cares, wants or desires them, when in reality the men just want to have sex and leave. Thinking of whether you would want your own child to be a prosititute or stripper comes down to you truly *caring* for your own and *not caring* for strangers. If you say i the end that if your child really wanted to be a prostitute, than you would support her, I say.......whoooow, that would be a parent completely missing the point. If your child wanted to someday be a prosititute, I would only hope that your world would stop right then and there. I would only hope that you (or anyone) would put your own life on hold and commit to helping your child get through and past whatever pain, abandonment, self-denying issues she has obviously developed. To say you would support her and know what that actually means for a person to resort to that, is not a good thing. But that only comes from understanding. You like prostitutes becasue they please you and you can leave and come back whenever you want. You mayb not see that as objectifying that person because you understand that they are there because they want to, they making good money, why is this a bad thing? I think it's not a good thing due to the reasons they might be there in the first place. If those women felt they were smart, powerful (other than with their bodies) and could make a difference in the world, then maybe they would be making bank and empowering themselves with their clothes on. They don'y know what dignity is, I don't think, and that is sad. No man that goes to a brothel actually cares about those women as *people*. They just can't.

I don't have any answers, I just think this is a very convoluted subject with a huge amount of problems across the world.

 

[CowTown]

<blockquote>Quote<br><hr><i>Originally posted by: <b>SeanDavis</b></i><br>Yeah believe it or not I agree with you. About the only angle I see where you and I fundamentally disagree (and that's just a guess), is that I feel we are the way we are, and realize that the "games" that are played between the sexes have been in place in general, since humans existed in their primary form. And this "game" is far from just dealing with the topic of stripping. It exists in marriage, dating, flirting, and even casual sex......

I fully feel prostitution should be fully legalized, and totally inspected as a licensed profession, and overseen by the government health wise, just like it is in Germany.....

I guess i'm lacking in the capacity to fully comprehend how watching a performer like say a stripper, or using the services of a professional prostitute constitutes as me "objectifying that person". I look at them as a PERSON, that has certain talents, and if I want to patronize them for their talents, and they are being compensated for this and this is of their choosing, why not? I guess i'm a fairly big centrist libertarian.......

Would I personally want to see, say my daughter become a prostitute? I would say no based on the fact that I would hope my daughter had deeper abilities than relying on her body and looks, but let's face it, not everyones kid is a rocket scientist, and some are flat our stupid. If my daughter happened to be like that, I wouldn't freak out if she became a prostitute, that would be what she chooses. As long as she was safe, healthy, and was choosing such a path on her own free will.

I suppose i'm just a fierce proponent for freedoms, regardless if I like them or not. I personally think our current president is a head of cabbage with legs, but I would defend him with my life because he is my commander in chief. To me if it's legal, and between consenting adults, knock yourself out. In the big scheme of our existance on planet earth, there is much more important things to me to put effort into.<hr></blockquote>




I wasn't expecting you to say that you agree with me. Nice. <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif" border="0"> I feel that the games you are referring to have been learned over time. As our brains have evolved over time, become more advanced in thinking and problem solving, we have learned the skills to manipulate, to condescend and to be competitive, etc. I agree I see it "exists in marriage, dating, flirting, and even casual sex", but that goes back to the individual. Each person can learn the skill to "not play" if they didn't agree in playing games. Mind games, manipulation and all those ugly head trips I think are retarded and uneccessary but some people don't know how to not play. That goes to education and learning new skills to help move people forward in their actions, not just sit in a pile of self-perpetuating mind games. That's all some people know, sadly enough, because I believe that's what they've learned. You can learn new, more self respecting, empowering and helpful ways to do things. When it comes to relationships of the sexes, I just wish more people first had their own self respect in tack, then secured the respect needed for another person and then taught that to their seedlings. That's where it starts so that the games can end. I think on a whole people just want to be loved and feel important. The second any of that starts to break down usually during childhood, things go haywire from then on.

I think for you to say that you don't fully comprehend how watching a stripper or going to a prostitute constitutes you as "objectifying that person", means that you aren't aware of the psychology behind the strippers or prostitutes doing those activities in the first place....especially prostitutes. I have seen enough interviews/shows on the personal lives of those people and hardly ever are those woman dreaming to do this as a career from when they were little kids. Somewhere along the line those women's self image became shattered, and their bodies became the easiest tool to use to find new comfort (on a surface level), the feeling that someone cares, wants or desires them, when in reality the men just want to have sex and leave. Thinking of whether you would want your own child to be a prosititute or stripper comes down to you truly *caring* for your own and *not caring* for strangers. If you say i the end that if your child really wanted to be a prostitute, than you would support her, I say.......whoooow, that would be a parent completely missing the point. If your child wanted to someday be a prosititute, I would only hope that your world would stop right then and there. I would only hope that you (or anyone) would put your own life on hold and commit to helping your child get through and past whatever pain, abandonment, self-denying issues she has obviously developed. To say you would support her and know what that actually means for a person to resort to that, is not a good thing. But that only comes from understanding. You like prostitutes becasue they please you and you can leave and come back whenever you want. You mayb not see that as objectifying that person because you understand that they are there because they want to, they making good money, why is this a bad thing? I think it's not a good thing due to the reasons they might be there in the first place. If those women felt they were smart, powerful (other than with their bodies) and could make a difference in the world, then maybe they would be making bank and empowering themselves with their clothes on. They don'y know what dignity is, I don't think, and that is sad. No man that goes to a brothel actually cares about those women as *people*. They just can't.

I don't have any answers, I just think this is a very convoluted subject with a huge amount of problems across the world.

 

[CowTown]

It's a break down of people not caring for other people as if they were their own. Not treating and respecting the next person (a stranger) as you would want them to treat you.

 

[CowTown]

It's a break down of people not caring for other people as if they were their own. Not treating and respecting the next person (a stranger) as you would want them to treat you.

 

[CowTown]

I hear crickets chirping in the night when I open this thread....

Is this too contraversial for others to voice a thought? Have I taken the subject way too far (quite possible, wouldn't be the first)? Just wondering what others think, since I see there are so many who have viewed it.
It's probably a very good thing that you, Sean, labeled it as such.

Curious.

Cheers! <img src="i/expressions/beer.gif" border="0">

 

[CowTown]

I hear crickets chirping in the night when I open this thread....

Is this too contraversial for others to voice a thought? Have I taken the subject way too far (quite possible, wouldn't be the first)? Just wondering what others think, since I see there are so many who have viewed it.
It's probably a very good thing that you, Sean, labeled it as such.

Curious.

Cheers! <img src="i/expressions/beer.gif" border="0">

 

[anonymous]

I personally don't think the issue should be bar, bikini bar, topless bar, all out brothel, whatever. I don't think a that a bar period should be right next door to a dance studio that obviously caters to children. I think that this politician is probably using this issue for her own selfish gain. It happens all the time. I know that many of you will disagree, but I think that's exactly what happened with Hillary Clinton and the now huge "port" issue, which you heard about if you live near NYC. Ridiculous! If a Chinese company wanted to buy the port, do you really think it would be in the news?

The point is, this stuff happens all the time. But, I always try to say, ok-politics aside, how do I really feel about the issue?
Sean Davis, I applaude you for asking for others opinions, and having an open mind.

Kids wether they have a strip club or whatever in their neighborhood, they'll see sex, drugs, and adultery on their TV's and probably in their own households. I just think that having this place right by a child's dance center should be the real issue. That could possibly be a safety issue.

All in all, most "controversies" are usually total nonsense. I try to stay away from them.

Christian

 

[anonymous]

I personally don't think the issue should be bar, bikini bar, topless bar, all out brothel, whatever. I don't think a that a bar period should be right next door to a dance studio that obviously caters to children. I think that this politician is probably using this issue for her own selfish gain. It happens all the time. I know that many of you will disagree, but I think that's exactly what happened with Hillary Clinton and the now huge "port" issue, which you heard about if you live near NYC. Ridiculous! If a Chinese company wanted to buy the port, do you really think it would be in the news?

The point is, this stuff happens all the time. But, I always try to say, ok-politics aside, how do I really feel about the issue?
Sean Davis, I applaude you for asking for others opinions, and having an open mind.

Kids wether they have a strip club or whatever in their neighborhood, they'll see sex, drugs, and adultery on their TV's and probably in their own households. I just think that having this place right by a child's dance center should be the real issue. That could possibly be a safety issue.

All in all, most "controversies" are usually total nonsense. I try to stay away from them.

Christian