<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>Seana30</b></i>
I wanted to make a quick reply on the discussion on appendix and tonsils.
My 11 year old son has had them both removed.
They told me this after his surgery, and it's not like we had a choice in removing his appendix, but................
After having your appendix removed you have a 5 times more likely chance of getting non hogkins lymphoma.
So maybe we do need these organs which are called "not useable" and we just dont know it. Food for thought!
Seana</end quote></div>
I would really need to see something on that to comment, but (and I do scour the internet and many forms of research regarding disease) who knows. Just because things are removed due to their perceived uselessness, means they are fully ready to be removed from the perspective by the overseeing organism.
I actually looked into your comments, googled up several variations about what you just said, and came up with some extremely pro creationist links. As I have said in the past, I have zero interest if evolutionism was made by "God", or nature, or whatever. All we know as human beings is that it 100% exists. Not only can we view the gradual decline in our vestigual organs/appendages as proof for this, but countless (and I mean tons) in field studies to prove the point, that evolution not only is real, but takes place around us regardless if we want to accept it or not. About 5 years ago there was an article on how evolution was identified to be taking place within 15 years (15 YEARS!) within some very basic worm. This was done by some of the most prestigious universities that humans go to. A lifeform had literally proved to have changed via evolution within 15 years. It was one way before 15 years (I think the article stipulated it was last observed 16 years previously), and then had a stark biological and genetic difference 15 years later when it was next observed).
As I said, as per "My son had his tonsils and appendex removed, and my doctor said this gave him 5 times the chanes of acquiring hodgins lymphoma"...Well...I have also had doctors tell me all kinds of things. I will listen to everything, but something of that type of insinuative magnitude needs to be substantiated in a scientific/medicinal way for it to be valued beyond anything other than opinion.
If we want to go by that alone, I have personally know around 11 humans (closely and acquintance) who have all had their tonsils and appendix removed. None of them had Hodgkins Lymphoma, or any other extreme health malady for that measure.
My point is, and always has been. By saying "vestigial", doesn't mean the organ, or appendage is 100% useless to us anymore (as per the link I will post later, that is extremely pro creationism), it just means that evolution, is proven, and takes place all around us, within our bodies, in our environement, and in a stark way on isolated areas. Now if "God" made it so, I have no idea. I have no problem with there being a central power to the universe. I just think if "it" exists, it doesn't care about order in any sense. It's like a giant battery fueling everything else, and it just always was there, for whatever reason, who knows.
I am tired. I have crap to do tomorrow. The link I will post is of course extremely biased. So much so, at times, the information therein is razor close to ignorance, if not fully subscribed to. Just because someone has a doctorate before their name, doesn't mean they can't/won't allow their personal prejudices to overshadow real science, and reality. Particular interest to me was him discussing the Coccyx point. On how there are still human muscles attached to the "tail bone", which helps us walk, relieve ourselves, and help us pee.
No scientist that I know of(And I know quite a few), would argue the point (pro evolution) that the human body has been able to find an effecient, total way of ridding itself of a "vestigial organ", or "vestigial appendage" within itself in such a way, where other muscularskeletar systems still didn't rely upon it. To be vague, I technically "don't need" my pinky finger on my left hand. If I wanted to be more efficient with saving 20% on gloves guaged by value on their fingers in the future, I could cut this off. Guess what? While it was still technically a "Vestigal appendage", as in openly debateably "useless", I still have tendons, muscles, fat, skin, tissue, sinue, etc etc attached to it. That doesn't make it anymore useful just because the rest of my body is attached to it.
Some arguments are just flat out ignorant. This isn't about believing in god, or not believing in god. It's about being educated, and atleast getting through seventh grade anatomy/biology. To me nothing is wrong with "god" giving us all the foundations for life to start, flourish, change, and propogate. Apparently, there are many people (and institutions) out there so deeply rooted in their religious beliefs, that you could show them something quite literally right in front of their face, and unless it was written "In scripture", it's "The devils talk".
Here is the link. As I said, I could sit here (as a layman) and tear this apart just for the part that i'm pointing out. Just like terrorists who strap explosives to themselves and kill others for their Jihad, those others who are deeply religious don't want question to creep into their theology and methodology amongst their "flock". Those who think, question. Those who question, inevitably ask why they believe in what they were taught/told to believe in. That weakens the foundation of any organized group. It's not good.
<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www.creationinthecrossfire.com/Articles/VestigialOrgans.html
">http://www.creationinthecrossf.../VestigialOrgans.html
</a>
What Are Vestigial Organs?
Vestigial organs are body structures considered to have been better developed and functional in the past but to have now lost most or all of their function and some or most of their structure. Darwin called them rudimentary. Evolutionists believe they were useful in ancestral species but are slowly being phased out in modern animals. It is evolutionally correct to get rid of unneeded baggage. Examples of vestigial organs in humans usually include the appendix, the coccyx (tail bone), and the tonsils. While Robert Wiedersheim listed 180 alleged vestigial or rudimentary organs in 1895, today the list is down to a handful. Vestigial organs were considered passe' because of ignorance, but now we have discovered important biological functions and necessity for every one of them. At an ICR summer institute, Dr. Richard Lumsden stated emphatically that there are no vestigial organs. Creationists would do well to ask, "What was this made for?" when looking at a seemingly useless body part. Since God made the whole body, He had a reason for including every part.